DESCHOOLING DIALOGUES
Episode 6 – Alnoor Ladha with Orland Bishop
Alnoor Ladha | Welcome to the Deschooling Dialogues. This podcast is a co-creation between Culture Hack Labs and Kosmos Journal. Culture Hack Labs is a not-for-profit advisory that supports organizations, social movements and activists to create cultural interventions for systems change. You can learn more@culturehack.io. Post-production is made possible by the dedicated supporters of Kosmos Journal, whose focus is on the transformation in harmony with all of life. You can find out more at www.kosmosjournal.org. Thank you to our editor and producer Eber Rodriguez. I’m your host, Alnoor Ladha.
Alnoor Ladha (AL) | Today I have the honor of being with a dear friend, elder and mentor Orland Bishop. Welcome Orland. Thank you for being with us on the Deschooling Dialogues.
Orland Bishop (OB) | Thank you Alnoor.
AL: For our audience, I’ll give a little bit of context. Orland lives in Los Angeles, the traditional lands of the Tongva peoples. He has a deep dedication to sacred hospitality, to radical hospitality. He’s the co-founder and executive director of ShadeTree Multicultural Foundation, also based in LA. It is a civil society organization dedicated to creating agreements for the heart of societal development. They focus on consciousness and the healing of cultures. Orland is also the presiding priest of the Aquarian Gospel Temple, founded in 1941 in LA. It supports independent spiritual scientific research around initiation.
Orland, I’ve learned so much from you over the years, and when I hear you speak, I feel there’s access to deeper time, access to Kairos time as opposed to the ordinary mechanical clock, time of Kronos. I want to start by asking you where you are now and how you’re feeling, and in the spirit of radical hospitality, putting in the circle anything that needs to be shared before we get into the content lines.
OB: Thank you so much for the opportunity to share in this space. The communities from which this invitation comes has been dear to my heart, particularly Kosmos Journal for the years of dedication to reflecting back what is deeply aspired to in our hearts and all the work that you have done with these very engaged communities that, are in a way, giving the fertility to our civilization to renew and to repurpose all of these resources into something that is more life affirming and life sustaining.
So, thank you for all of that background work as well. I’m at home here in Los Angeles, which has been my home space in the deep memory of this relationship to the spiritual ecology that the Tongva people had stewarded for so many centuries. The confluences of these rivers that make up this Los Angeles basin is a profound channel for not just water, in a sense of the everyday flows that sustain life, but the currents that renew this particular western edge of civilization, the currents that are part of the makeup of this ecology. So I’ve been swimming in that for years and stay within my life purpose to be in service from this place.
The timeframe is also significant in that we are coming up to this solar eclipse and within that building-up process, we are confronted with what is hidden and what has to be made more transparent in the forces of what lives between that which gives light and that which gives purpose; Earth and sun and everything else in between.
So it’s a time for renewal and we send prayers out for all those whose lives and purpose are being disrupted by all kinds of violence everywhere, and that we find peace in these sacred times of Ramadan and other sacred expressions that are still devoted to nurturing the wellbeing of our future.
AL: Thank you Orland. And we’re speaking the day after Laylat-al-Qadr which is usually the 27th night of Ramadan, the night of power, the night of Mohammad’s enlightenment. I was in deep ceremony last night and it feels very fitting to be with you this morning.
OB: Wow, thank you.
AL: So the core question and inquiry of this podcast is, as I have conversations with elders and people I admire and those who are committed to the wisdom paths and deeply are familiar with the crises and the context of this moment – the oxygen which we breathe, the waters in which we swim – the central inquiry is around what do we need to unlearn as a society, as a culture? And “we” in some ways is the ‘universalizing we’, and I mean it in that sense of the dominant culture of the Anglophone West and its effects of globalization, extraction, domination, transactionalization, commodification, etc. that creates the force-field of energy that the West has exported around the world and now has become a sort of monoculture of the mind at a global level. And so where would you start in the deschooling, in the unlearning, the deconditioning, the decolonizing process?
OB: Yeah. I would start to really look at the soul event that we call the intellect. It is a faculty within the soul that moves consciousness towards the external forces. So the laws within the external expressions of sense perception. So, anything outside of sense perception, the intellect is now responsible for making meaning of that. Within the sense perceptual body is the sentient reality. It is where our ancestors still live. It’s where the wisdom of nature is still preserved, really in our organs.
This is the reality that makes up the western world, the struggle between the inner and outer realities in which less and less meaning is given to what’s inside and more and more meaning is given to what’s outside. Not just meaning, but now it’s moving to desire for what is outside. So the intellect has devolved its higher purpose from being able to communicate with the essential need of a higher inheritance to just inheriting the feeling for the power over what is outside.
And this is the edge of where we are, the fight for material goals and material focus power centers, none of which could come inside of the person in the way that it’s accumulated because it has to then meet other laws that are governed by what is the inner part of sense perception. And this is the really learning part. How do we bring our will back to the sentient space, the place where other kinds of wisdom reside – nature wisdom, culture wisdom, cosmos wisdom – live within the human body. Outside of the human body, nature then presents something very different, the context for a shared reality.
But we no longer want to share reality, we want to possess it for more power. And this is where the western mind has gone, the pursuit of power without deep perception and contemplation of its purpose, which means no initiation.
No initiation happens if everything outside is gained and nothing inside is understood.
I think the relearning the de-schooling of the patterns is to create spaciousness for energy to move between what is given in the framework of these structures of thinking and the inner feeling for truth. Is it truthful? Because the human being starts life in the pursuit of truth. The infant child learns everything by being truthful to the motive of consciousness, which is ‘I will create a framework for a shared understanding for a shared reality.’ This is why a child learns to speak and perceive reality the way it inherits it, but also try to stay awake to asking, what really is this for?
We are responsible for teaching the child how to remain truthful to what they’re learning. We don’t do it successfully. We corrupt them by the time they’re a certain age to pursue power – also through the education that they receive. But this is still for me a responsibility not only for myself personally, but for the spaces where I am in service to ask people again, how do you find the truth of what you are pursuing?
AL: Thank you for sharing. You were reminding me of Julian James’ book, The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, where he talks about the fact that even the ancient Greeks, up to the Mediterranean Bronze Age, didn’t really have a concept of the self in the same way, they didn’t consider emotions and desires and thoughts and feelings as stemming from their own mind, but rather, as a consequence of actions outside of themselves – Gods, daemons, cultural entanglements, milieus of energy, what Rupert Sheldrick would call morphogenetic fields. We now have such an individualized, collapsed, atomized understanding of the self and our agency. That affects even our notions of freedom, of autonomy, of will, of needs, desires, wants, and it feels and seems as if we’ve been hijacked by the notion of the self, the small ‘s’ self and then reifies that as a culture.
At every point, we ask, what do you do for a living? We’re identified with being a lawyer or an activist or a doctor or teacher, or what have you, as if it’s our only identity. And at every point, passports, driver’s licenses, names, everything reifies this small ‘s’ self. So it’s almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy. When a kind of mimetic structure, like the invisible hand, comes along – everyone just has to be selfish and then a perfect equilibrium will be created by the godlike market – that it becomes ripe to be hijacked by platforms like that because we have no broader sense of self. You touched on the role of initiation, and maybe you can say a bit more about what initiation would look like at a cultural level?
OB: Yes, so we had some significant protections in the initiatory traditions that if we are to face external forces in which many other kinds of intelligences live as well. So nature is not pure and it’s not simple. It’s a very complex field of intelligences that could develop within the human sense bodies and sense faculties, tremendous powers.
In African traditions, Voodoo is the framework within nature. All of these different shrines are made up of intelligences, Orishas and others that have tremendous power to cultivate within the human will, what we call magic, the power to cause change. It wasn’t just dependent upon the human being to articulate frameworks for what we cultivate as culture. We learned that these forces exist within the natural world and within the cosmological world. Beings were always interested in our capacity to develop and utilize their will in our will. So this is the initiatory space.
What are we giving our will to – that then becomes our will to sustain a kind of balance between intelligences in all different forms, visible and invisible. Communities have learned how to stay within the agreement structures of what to give the spirits and what to receive from them.
When we forget the purpose of the self being a container for constantly developing certain powers, we corrupt the pathway of saying we can just be educated about it, learn about it, but don’t make any personal commitment for the protection and the real negotiation of what we are allowed to do with those powers. So initiation allows us to understand the responsibility of sustaining a certain kind of freedom. And this freedom in a sense is how far to use those powers.
We know we couldn’t use those powers without a conscious knowing of the consequences – to develop the ethics of practice of how to carry such powers in the world. There’s certain things you just don’t do because you think it’s your will and you certainly do not do harm to others who are not initiated. So soldiers who had to fight each other, warriors who had to fight each other, understood the specific laws that if someone is killed on the battlefield, you had to also do the right ceremony for them. You just don’t walk away. The war ended with ceremony for the so-called enemy. Why? Because you’re taking their spirit back home with you as well. So these are in the frameworks of our initiative wisdom. It was about accumulation of powers in the will of the human being and the right use of them for how we engage the world.
AL: When you talk about initiation, I often think about Malidoma Somé, who I know you worked with for many years, and his conception that we don’t have initiation for us to become self-aware beings, or to become more in our mastery, but to die to our small ‘s’ self, to be of service to the larger whole. The Dagara traditions, for example, and West African traditions more broadly, where a child, usually a male is pulled out of their bed at the age of puberty and buried for three days and the whole community holds space for this knowing that this is a life or death tribulation. On the other side, they will be in deeper service because they know the consequences of entering the portal of death.
OB: So it is a merger with ancestors, with community, and with the place. So the initiation is to make the person responsible for the awareness that they’re connected to – these other states of reality. If an initiated person, as an example, violates their initiation protocol and the ancestors withdraw from them, they die, because their life-forces are now merged with the ancestral world. Something has to do with the will that if the person understands the spiritual responsibility of their initiation, they will honor what the ancestral laws are and they will honor what the place needs. So you don’t violate either.
You don’t violate the place because the place is where the power has to manifest. So you’re initiated into a community of practice that allows your work to be part of an ecology, a spiritual ecology, what the place then brings in. So it raises the vibrancy where the animals feel protected. They don’t fear you. They come there because you are an initiate and you understand their purpose in the ecology of nature. You don’t violate the rivers. And these things have to do with the fact that there is a reciprocity between the manifested world and the spiritual world that is sourcing creativity towards it. And we are part of the climate, we are part of everything that happens within the sphere of the earth. In losing that, people think that nature is just raw materials for us to make things from. All of this kind of corruption – the fact that the initiatory wisdom got displaced and that the person feels more powerful by taking the sacred wisdom from other places and times and putting it into their own ego. This is a misuse of the self as we call it.
AL: You’re also touching, to a certain extent, on karma and the consequences of breaking spiritual etiquette, right? Could you say a little bit more about that?
OB: Yes. We don’t remain physical. We don’t remain in the world of existence because at death we have to renegotiate with the world that was invisible and we meet that in its full power. And to be exiled from that in the afterlife is so much harder. This is really where the ego has to be able to, in a certain way, petition for belonging. But if you have not cultivated the right use of the ego in the physical manifested world, it has no place in the spiritual world. The ego in the spiritual world is actually like a note in a harmonic vibrancy. If there’s discord, you don’t find belonging.
The laws are far more strict in the disembodied world than in the embodied world because now you have to, in a way, return to an ecology that is pure in its lawfulness. And this is what one can call karma. So a person might return back into physical life sooner and come back feeling more exiled from their communities of memory. And this is really where the modern world is accumulated with uninitiated people more and more, reborn into a kind of chaos of the mind because that’s all they come back with – mental energy and no soulful energy because they didn’t get enough time to review consciousness and connect with an ancestral wisdom to prepare them to come back with gifts. So some people come back and feel without a purpose, or purposelessness and lost and a kind of exile still. But this is the accumulated result of a loss of the initiatory wisdom over a very long time. And so there are practitioners who are helping people go back to the soul level of work where the healing could be done, even kind of reparations with their own ancestors to give them back a chance to make peace and make progress with their wellbeing.
AL: What do you say to a rationalist, for example, who is let’s say a rationalist materialist who only believes in the remit of the mind and this incarnation, and the idea of karma or the eternal return or spiritual consequences would be anathema, would be a non-starter?
OB: I’ll ask them to pursue any goal without another human being.
AL: Please say more.
OB: Well, even the rational mind has to contemplate that someone else has something in their minds that they don’t know. The rational mind has a contemplative space or it would not develop persuasive language to try to convince someone else to do what they know is possible. The rational mind hides the fact that they need other human beings to know or even to affirm what they know. And this is a kind of deception to the self that is still trying to be in relationship to a shared reality that has between you and I, a space, a gap, in which something of phenomena happens that the rational mind does not cross.
The space for shared understanding is not rational. No one has yet explained it. How do you really hear what I’m saying and understand it? What is that? What process? There’s no rational discourse that explains it, it leaves it open because the true heart of language knows that there’s nothing between us but emptiness and yet intimacy of words and meaning allows us to do something together and arrive at a shared understanding of something. This was not, the rational mind didn’t explain that or develop that. That is still the old mind, very old mind in which magic still is carried.
AL: I was thinking about the work of Mircea Eliade, and his Myth of the Eternal Return where he talks about one of the shared practices between mystical traditions, Indigenous traditions, strong cultures, wisdom cultures was two things: one was embodiment and the other was reincarnation. So when a Norse person in prehistoric northern Europe was spearfishing, they didn’t pray to Odin, they became Odin. The point of the gods was to have this Archimedes point to embody into, and then the literal idea of God outside of you, that essentially the Abrahamic institutional religions created, this disintermediation where you no longer could embody in that way.
And then the second was reincarnation, where the wisdom traditions understand the notion of the transmigratory soul coming back for its lessons. In some ways, Christianity ended that line by saying, there’ll only be the second coming of Christ. Everyone will go to eternal heaven or hell, and it’ll only be Christ that is resurrected. That took away the ability for us to understand karma, the spiritual consequences of what we do here. And there’s something very powerful in what you’re saying, which is that the notion of reincarnation is deeply linked to karma. The notion of relationality with other souls is deeply linked to the consequence of how we show up in this world. Is that right?
OB: As well to this conception of Christ, the evolution of consciousness, there’s something that has to go into the deep forgetfulness and recover the heart of the soul, right? So in the conception of the etheric body, the etheric body that preserves the physical from falling all the way into the mineral world, which is death, the etheric body is resurrecting the physical every day. If it leaves the physical body, we die. So there’s a lawfulness in the idea of what is constituted as the Christ.
We have lost the fact that it is an intelligence that is needed for planetary evolution that has been evolving in the collective unconscious for a long time. And it became conscious at a certain point in human evolution when the life-body reached a certain stage of maturity in which we could cultivate a collective communion, a culture. But this began in ancient Kemet, in ancient Egypt. Akhenaten prepared a conceptual model of the monotheistic idea, and monotheism at that time was not believing in just one God. It’s believing that we have inherited all the gods and have developed a capacity in ourselves to use that deity for building a civilization. He was putting that before the people of ancient Egypt, that we have the responsibility to move from the gods, that we separate ourselves to worship because Isis had already revealed how the body could be reassembled into its higher purpose and how you can actually procreate without physical conception of life.
This is ancient wisdom moving through civilizations and becoming more indoctrined by powers who want to use it without the fruitfulness of it. And by the time it reached a certain age where our collective belief, the Age of Pisces, when the Earth is in this constellation, we had to believe either in the gods or in ourselves. This is where the intellect brought it.
Well, we couldn’t believe in God, but make it about ourselves. So we developed a religion in which the priests again were worshiped as a representative of God. This is a disruption of the higher truth of what was evolving in these ancient civilizations to bring the Earth into another relationship to the soul. Many of these factors still have threads of it moving through our world, but for the most part, the doctrines of understanding prayer have been lost and religion is now left with pieces again of the sacred mandates, and hopefully we can put them back together and rebuild our collective consciousness space.
AL: There’s a notion in Sufi thought that says something like: “to the intellect, God is transcendental, but for the embodied mystical experience, God becomes immanent” in this distinction between the transcendental God up there and the immanent God of mysticism, which is “God as becoming,” Allah is a metaphor for the universe becoming self-aware through consciousness. It seems to me that there’s something very powerfully linked to money here. And I know you have talked about the esoteric dimensions of money, but when we talk about mediation, there’s mediation of course from the priest class, but there’s also mediation that’s almost supercharged in some way by the introduction of capital. And it also supercharges our rampant individualism and the idea of the atomized self and self-interest, and these things seem related. So maybe you could do a little weaving for us on how money might be related to the idea of self-interest, self-accumulation, self-aggrandizement, etc. and the esoteric dimensions. I love that you bring that in when we talk about capital.
OB: Yes. After some years of looking into this phenomenon, when I think about it now and how far the different currencies have evolved since we started working 25 years ago in the conception of what is the future of money in human consciousness, in the astral world, in the world where the soul life lives really we have developed an awareness that we are just about to again inherit something that supersedes the physical corporal distinctions in which we have lived for the last couple thousand years.
We now have another expanding awareness and people call it the artificial hologram. There are all kinds of names for the awareness that’s maturing in our astral body to have a kind of capacity to alter reality, alter the mind, alter space and time, where memories of all kinds could flow. Again, we are at that edge. We don’t have a ceremony for it yet, a collective ceremony. We have different explorations and experimentations, but the money process is what we have been developing out of this longing to be in touch with something that will come into creation out of just intent.
We are longing to be there. We don’t have the agreement structure to fulfill it yet where two or more could agree, and this becomes a reality other than money. It’s the only sphere which allows two or more to do something together that belongs to the astral body, meaning it belongs to imagination, diminishing inspiration, and in a certain way complete loss of intuition as to its higher purpose. We don’t have an intuitive knowing of what money was, is, or can be. We have inspirations that want more and more of it to do something, and we really don’t have the imagination to put it into the full context of right purpose of use. And people are exploring now other paradigms, artificial intelligence and all these other things to still make something that we have in our collective unconscious available.
It wouldn’t be as easy as how we got other people’s physical labor to be exploited. It wouldn’t be that easy. We want to arrive at this future before others. No, there’s no such next future. Everything depends upon the equity of where the soul will arrive and everyone will receive something because that’s the intuitive plane of reality. There will be no exploitation, there will only be right agreement.
If we are not nurturing that we’re going to be dispossessed of the inspiration to know that we have certain creative potentials with us, and this is, we see patterns in our culture politically and economically in which people who have the means to do better with it are actually doing more harm with it because they want to arrive at a future without others. This is not possible for human beings. There is no future without others.
AL: There’s something that you’re pointing to and you’ve said before in other contexts around the idea of a fiat currency as “out of nowhere”, and our current obsession with this growth / debt-based currency is creating destruction. It’s a destructive force on the planet, and yet healing and wealth are somehow bound together, and you’re gesturing towards that. Could you say more on how you see healing and wealth co-evolving?
OB: Yes, the fiat power is not an original western mind conception, right? It is not practical knowledge. It’s ancient magic, it’s ancient wisdom of using the power of speech. It’s called Ptah. Ptah, the creative utterance that creates the cognitive framework for those times in ancient Egypt – like the Pharaoh to be able to have a conception of the laws that will allow the civilization to emerge. There’s a creative speech within the collective consciousness space to which we give rise to our civilizations. We don’t just wait for politicians to say it and then everybody organizes around that. That is the modern way of thinking about reality, but the soul is the soul of the collective consciousness. We are listening to a harmonic vibrancy within the star wisdom that gives rise to our civilizations. So the stars speak and they may have become silent to most people in the western mind culture because we don’t sensitize our awareness to what is true in the form of light, but this is really what money is. It came from the conception of saying, “let there be light”. Let there be a vision for or oracle for the future, and people learn how to articulate it, and in a certain way monetize it in forms of currencies that then had to do with who possesses the power and the authority to make those articulations to the masses of people.
More and more creating deceptions as what the future could look like if we have money and not what the stars are speaking, but what the authorities are speaking. There is still time to correct it in a way that allows the collective unconsciousness to get out of the feeling that they have nothing to contribute to the future and give people a place in light, in love, in life to feel responsible for the inheritances that are coming from the invisible realms where everybody is a host for that capital, for that currency, instead of creating scarcity and authority over it and then choosing who lives or dies or who should be imprisoned or unemployed. This is a false conception of not only deity but of humanity as well. And we are trapped in a paradigm that is our collective inheritance in which we don’t take personal responsibility for either because we feel dispossessed, but it’s ours.
AL: Most people are just trying to keep body and soul together. I often think of capitalist modernity as this complex adaptive evolutionary system. It’s alive. It has a set of rules that are generative. They’re mostly, of course, man-made constructed rules, e.g. compound interest. Money will accrue debt. So if you have access to capital, you get exponential capital; if you have debt, you get exponential debt. It’s a generative structure. What that structure does is it finds those who best serve its logic and pulls them to the top. It enlists them. And so if you’re willing to sync your values with the incentive landscape of capitalist modernity, then you’ll be rewarded for that.
How do ordinary people who are working their lives who don’t even know they are in the orbit of this complex adaptive system – a system of distributed fascism where everyone just thinks they’re going to work and putting food on the table for their family, but we’re contributing to this life-destroying machine and strengthening the interests of capital. How do we break that spell?
OB: It’s for a period of time. It doesn’t last. It never lasts.
AL: Can we speed it up? Is there an acceleration in deconstructing the spell of fiat lux as capital?
OB: Well, the energies that speed up, that cultivate the etheric body, because in relationship to light the physical space, we can’t really speed up because by the time it manifests, it’s almost finished at this level. The etheric body, the life body that is in a certain way generating aspirations or inspirations for the forms of communications that are emerging, is where we are engaged.
This is the activist space, but we cannot activate life forces with mind forces that are oppositional to anything, right? We cannot bring our life alive by opposing something. We bring our life forces alive by enhancing a love for the future that that body is inheriting forces to be part of. This is the challenge – that if we love the future, the astral body brings it here. The spirit body brings the future to us. It harmonizes light by the love we create in the etheric realms that resurrects the physical from the forgetfulness by these patterns of behavior.
We’ve inherited a karma as a civilization, but we can renew it by utilizing another body, a feeling body, where the cognition in that feeling is for the truth, that we have a better future to which we could orient our life-force to. It does not have to fall towards collapse. It doesn’t have to be oppositional to anything in this civilization. We have to enhance it by developing right attitude towards the lawfulness that is Life.
There’s no substitute for that. And in a way, we’ve seen that people are going even back to Eastern religious practices, the yogas and different things to recalibrate this very body, this physical etheric connection in which something will be catalyzed in it that is not in this civilization, it’s in the ethers, and this is the human being’s role in reality to create agreements. And the way we do it is through a cognitive feeling for the truth that our soul knows, even if our mind doesn’t, our soul knows this because it moves between time, space, and patterns effortlessly.
AL: Yes, this is going to take some contemplation time to sit with what you’re saying and the spiritual-political praxis of a form of prophecy and the conjuring of the future, and not necessarily a pulling, but a meeting of future possibility coming to us now.
OB: Even in the small group meeting, in a particular place for a period of time, speeds it up. It is not like time. It’s how the energy is used. We are energetic beings. We host futures all the time in our very constitution, expressing it in a harmonious way where two or more knows what we are agreeing to is putting a new ecology into consciousness and into nature as well.
AL: Last question. I want to honor your time. What is the role of ancestors in this work of meeting the prophetic impulse? I’ve heard you say before that the most powerful religion in the world is the ancestors. There’s something about this relationship between the tribe of the living and the tribe of the dead that feels very potent around the notion of what we are calling into being.
OB: Yes, yes. The physical world is, every time I think about it in a quantum sense, it is phenomenal. All these billions of people who are physically in the world, multiply that by 62, and that’s how much energy is in the physical world in the ancestral sense. We have five generations of memory in the physical body, five generations of ancestral energy in the physical body, working from the elemental level of the mineral life to create an inner feeling for the powers that we can call forth in memory. So we have this tremendous vault of memory as organs of cognition and perception in these ideas of the chakras, our power centers that move consciousness from forgetfulness to total enlightened awareness of the use of the ancestral world. We have that in the different power centers of the body. Most of us only attract each other for sexual purposes, reproduction of more people who will probably remain unconscious.
We don’t understand the ancient wisdom of the Rishis that showed us the yoga, and then Buddha bringing the Eightfold Path of how to utilize it. And one of the key parts of this right relationship, but right relationship doesn’t mean I have a spouse or companion where it’s only physical intimacy. We have higher intimacies to agree with, what is the heart center for? What is the throat center for? What is the brow center for? What is the crown center for? These are ways in which we integrate the ancestors into the flow of energy that expands our reach into this natural ecology for the purpose of balancing the corruption that is in the world and the right use of our etheric body, which passes through the heart that transforms the trauma of the ancestral memory that we inherited. Every time it goes through the heart chakra, it’s supposed to renew the blood, literally renew the blood and bring the ancestors into our physical body so that we might overcome the adversarial illnesses that are depleting our wellbeing.
We live in a very toxic world and our bodies cannot override those things without another level. The throat chakra is where speech, where creative utterance happens. Prayers for some, meditation for others, the brow chakra. But this is the power of lawful use of the will. The will is in the speech, far more will is in the speech than in the physical body center, the solar plexus center. We can create beings other than other human beings with speech we can contemplate and other star beings, beings outside of our physical Earth structure, understand our intuitions and imaginations. We are a communication field for a lot of different intelligences to be organized, to be in religious order or ceremonial order with the human beings will beyond the physical world. And the ancestors in a way live so intimately with us, and yet we exile them from our cognition to the degree in which they only reside in the base chakras of our existence.
And mostly the first and second [chakras], which is where we interact with the lawful attraction for procreation and in some cases just the harmonic residence of love for those who are choosing others or who have other life experiences and goals of what the body is living with in terms of sexuality and such.
But humanity is the full use of these power centers, and we are responsible for integrating the ancestral laws into them, which is the first level, and then the other level of these other ecological beings on the physical Earth and around our solar system that have messages for the various organs that we are cultivating in our physical bodies. The physical body is not just ours. It’s a lawful place for communications, divine and human and nature. In an initiatory system, we understand those things, but the ancestral world is knocking again, deeply at the door of our minds to open up for this cohabitation, but we’ll feel them again deeply because the Earth is populated by more invisible beings than visible beings.
AL: Do you think that there is an esoteric battle between light and dark happening between these beings? Is what’s happening here being replicated on some fractal level?
OB: In the sense that we have made more of both the light and the dark unconscious, the battle is in our unconsciousness, not between light and dark. There’s no light and dark. There’s manifested and unmanifested, and when the manifestation of life has accumulated so much unconsciousness, yeah, the world becomes dark. It becomes a place in which corruption and pollution and disillusionment happens, but there’s really not a fight. There’s a forgetting. And when we forget, yes, forces override our cognition and perception all the time.
AL: That’s a beautiful place to end and leave us in contemplation. Orland, thank you so much for your time, for all that you do in the world and how you walk in the world, for who you are and how you share.
OB | I appreciate you. Thank you, brother. Thank you.